Interview with Xu Tong ｜ Documentary will die when the meta-universe comes.
Ten years ago, I first met him.Xu tongDirector.
At that time, he took the documentaries "Fortune Telling" and "Old Tang Tou" to communicate with us at school.
Ten years later, I was with him again.Minute international short film festivalMeet again in the world.
In the past 10 years, the whole world has undergone earth-shaking changes, especially in the past two years, which has reshaped our cognition of ourselves and the world from all levels.
So is director Xu Tong.
After he turned 50, he said that his world outlook had undergone a powerful update and upgrade.
In his own words:"I have now evolved to version 3.0."
We had a long talk with director Xu Tong in version 3.0.
Talk about how he updates his world view, his understanding of the meta-universe, and where the documentary will go in this context.
Xu tong
Documentary director, screenwriter and writer
Masterpieces: Wheat Harvest, Fortune Telling, Old Tang Tou, Four Brothers, Digging Eyes and Barefoot Doctor.
Renew the world outlook
Houlang movie:Director Xu Tong, the last time I saw you was 10 years ago, when you were a model. Seeing you again now is getting more and more fashionable, and I almost didn’t dare to recognize it. And when you meet, you will say that your world outlook has changed greatly over the years.
So I was thinking:Perhaps the external modeling has a lot to do with the change of your internal view of time?
Xu Tong: Maybe the appearance and the heart are in harmony. After all, it has been 10 years, and not only the world outlook, but also the world is changing.
After making documentaries for so many years, now they all call me."old director"I’m a little dissatisfied.
My world has changed a lot since three years ago, because we were stationed in a privately-run nursing home to shoot (documentary "Nursing Home", 2019). In a county town in the northeast, it was very inconspicuous, not the kind of tall state-owned nursing home.
"Nursing Home" shooting scene
I feel that this is a universe completely parallel to my world (living and working in Beijing).
Sometimes, we really feel that space is not in a space with reality. Even the world is not only our real life. There may be another layer that is a virtual and re-simulated world.
For example, we now live in The Truman Show, and this world is also called "matrix simulation". Because we can be a and b in the smallest matter, it is called "superposition state" Physics 100 years ago has discovered this.
But in any case, since our world is parallel and has become many realities, such as the reality of Beijing and the reality of nursing homes, if the realities of different spaces are so intertwined, your psychological state, behavioral state and mental outlook will change.
Just like fashion, I will feel that I am not fashion, but a little superimposed.
Clothes may be long or short, but it doesn’t matter. What matters is how to stack them in a state that makes you feel comfortable, which is the most suitable for you.
"Nursing Home" shooting scene
Houlang film: Is the opportunity for you to change just because of Nursing Home?
Xu Tong: The main opportunity lies in.worldview.
For example, "three views are ruined" is often when we are not paying attention, and the world outlook, outlook on life and values are easy to go astray.
Among these three views, I think it is easier to grasp from the technical level, that is, the "world outlook."
Simply put, "world outlook" is about understanding and cognition of the world.
Xu Tong’s Visual Art Works (1)
In the past 100 years, the world outlook of mankind has made a particularly great leap. Generally speaking, our understanding of the world can be divided into three stages:
The first stage, represented by Aristotle in ancient Greece, is a basic description of what the world and the universe are, which is an anthropomorphic description, that is, everything in the world is composed of some basic substances;
In the second stage, Newton’s worldview, he thinks that everything in the world is a mechanical, push-pull relationship, and the relationship between force and force. Newton’s worldview is a mechanistic worldview, just like a machine.
The third stage is the change of the world outlook in the past hundred years, for example, from Einstein, so our world has entered what I called version 3.0, which is out of Newton’s world outlook.
In the past three years, I have made a self-renewal in this world view.
Just like this computer system is not good, we will update and upgrade the system.
Enjoy reading and enjoying the shock.
Houlang filmYou have been particularly fond of mentioning physical things in recent years. Where did this information mainly come from?
Xu Tong:read.
Why am I willing to talk so much about Houlang movies? Because Houlang (publishing house) is helpful to me.
This is not an advertisement, because they constantly provide me with many books with rich world views. Of course, they also focus on movies, or literature, and picture books like The Lighthouse.
In a word, it opens a window for us to understand the new face of the world.
The day before yesterday, we also talked about the problem of pushing information on the Internet. Although it is very convenient, once you search for something, it will push the relevant news in the right direction. This is called."cocoon room effect", that is, "self-restraint."
Xu Tong’s Visual Art Works (2)
But books don’t take the initiative to find you, only you take the initiative to find books, so it brings you more things, especially translations.
Translation is a particularly good channel for ideological enlightenment, and even I think this kind of translation with a certain depth and a little voluminous is particularly helpful to me.
for exampleHistory of thought in the 20th centuryI lived in a nursing home for a year the year before last, and spent a lot of time not shooting, just looking at these things-I think for a director, this is simply a gift from God.
Houlang filmAfter listening to your recommendation, I also recommend our company’s books to you. Our company has a series called "History Hall", which is a brand of historical books, covering the history of the whole world;
There is also a series called "Wisdom Palace", which is a book brand of humanities and social sciences; In addition, there is a series called "Post Wave Science", and there are a lot of books about the universe, ecology and biology.
Xu Tong: That sounds good to me.In the past, I only focused on making movies, but now I think we should have a bigger world outlook and constantly re-understand the universe.
Houlang filmThe ancients said that "you know your destiny at fifty", and it is very valuable to be so eager to understand the world and update your system in the "year of destiny".
Xu Tong: But I really enjoy it. I am a kind ofUneasy, enjoyable and shockingThe state of.
In fact, we all know the basic principles of "quantum mechanics", but what we can’t know is: why can everything in the universe be arranged in an orderly manner without disorder?
Documentaries will also die.
Houlang film: Your world outlook has changed so much. Is there any change in your personal work and life?
Xu Tong: My novel will be adapted into a movie. Now that it has been publicized,AchengThe old man checks the script, and he is also our art consultant.
Houlang film: You need to tell yourself a story.
Xu Tong: Right. The story is actually a model. I watched a novel class that day, which was very interesting.
It says that there is a formula for writing stories, which revolves around several issues:
What is your hero’s goal? What is the dilemma? What is effort? What is the failed and unsatisfactory result? What did he overcome and change? This is a basic model. Why are humans willing to discover and build models?
After my worldview was updated to 3.0, I felt that the essence of human nature was not a moral issue at all.
When we read a lot of literature and art, it seems that we are all thinking about human nature. But it was wrong. It was not until I was 50 that I found out:
What is human nature? Humanity is measurement!
How to understand this sentence?
Take our bodies for example. Man is a carbon-based creature, and carbon is the simplest chemical element, so why does such a simple carbon element finally emerge consciousness? This is a very complicated process.
There is a lot of contingency in this process, and finally life comes into being, and life emerges consciousness, and then it is very interesting.
Xu Tong’s new work "They are made of meat. How is meat made?"
Just like when I was a director, I felt that there were waves of information in the field.
When we shoot a documentary, we want to capture this real-time information, as far as possible through intermediary devices outside the body, such as cameras, so that the audience can receive this signal while watching-this is what the documentary is about.
However, due to the limited number of people, especially the limited tools invented by people, we can’t convey all this information, and the information will be "attenuated" in the image-this is the difference between the authenticity of the work and the authenticity of the scene.
Houlang filmThere will always be a gap.
Xu Tong: That’s why I hope so much.metaverseandvirtual worldBecause I think it will solve this problem.
Suppose we are now in a meta-universe, and its immersion and simulation have reached the same level as that of our physical body, then we don’t need to shoot the scene to anyone, just want to show him this information.
There is no need for cameras or other intermediaries.
This is the greatest charm of the meta-universe, and it is also the reason why I hope it can rapidly develop into surrealism. By that time, all the space in the future, we can freely enter, this is called."I am with God.".
By that time,The video dies, the documentary dies, and they all become cultural heritage..
Documentary is not "filming behind"
Houlang filmSister Xiaoyan’s identity has changed, from a person who was photographed to a person who picked up the camera.
Xu Tong: Yes, that’s right. Behind me (filming), there is another person behind her (filming). We always have so many machines at the scene, which are staggered back and forth, which is very interesting.
Tang Xiaoyan producer and photographer
Houlang filmWhat’s your identity when you come to the Minute International Short Film Festival?
Xu Tong: They set up an art committee, and I am one of them.
I think this idea is still rare, and it is usually the judges. For example, these judges are in this session, and others may be in the next session.
However, the establishment of the Art Committee in the Minute International Short Film Festival hopes to be fixed, that is, if members do not resign, they will always be there. Moreover, the Arts Committee can engage many people, with the purpose of crossing, enriching and diversifying, so that not all of them are filming, not all of them are filming documentaries.
I also often attend film festivals and am constantly evaluated by others. I always feel that some film festivals are really dominated and influenced by the interests of individual judges, which will affect the richness of the final works. There may be many more interesting and diverse things, such as strong expression of social reality.
In fact, my film is to strongly express the reality, but I am particularly cautious and alert to this, which is just one of the ways to express the director’s feelings.
Houlang filmIn this process, is there anything that makes you feel refreshed?
Xu Tong: I heard something, but I didn’t see it. I can only draw conclusions about what I saw. At present, among the more than 100 short films I have seen, there is no documentary link.
This is also the reason why I am particularly eager to speak out everywhere now:Documentary is really more than just following, and following doesn’t mean following.
Now there is a low-level concept that "following the beat" means "following the beat".
Since the appearance of the character is always the back of the head, he doesn’t know how to take two more steps? Can’t you put the machine in front to shoot the face of the character?
Every interview should take a 45-degree face and a 30-degree face. Why didn’t we know we were going to shoot faces when we made a documentary? It’s been five or six minutes since the character appeared, and the audience still doesn’t know what he looks like.
"Nursing Home" shooting scene
Unless you deliberately create suspense for the audience, at the end of the whole film, he turns around and says, "Oh, so this man is blind", which is ok, right? Or this person is pockmarked, which is quite funny; It doesn’t matter if this person is a scar face.
But you can’t say that you never give a straight face. I am anxious when I see such a documentary. Because you shoot people, the face is the most basic.
Houlang film: Yes, that’s right. I just talked to Mr. Dong Bingfeng, and he inspired me a lot in two aspects.
First, he mentioned that the relationship between the audience, the creator and the work has changed greatly, that is, the privilege of the creator is gradually being taken away, becoming an equal relationship with the audience and even creating works together. This relationship will determine the changes in the form and presentation of works;
Secondly, he mentioned that in the post-epidemic era, the relationship between people and between people and the world, including the relationship between artistic creation and the present, is undergoing tremendous changes, which needs to be reflected in our creation accordingly, otherwise the creation is lagging behind.
"Nursing Home" shooting scene
Xu Tong: That’s right. Moreover, this relationship is not one-way, it is two-way or even multi-directional, or even parallel at the same time.
For example, if we play the same game in a common space of the meta-universe and understand it as a movie, we can change the script at any time, join new people at any time, form different teams at any time and interact with people around us in different ways.
Interaction is what you just said about equality, because we are in the meta-universe, just like we are in the real world, which is no longer a documentary, but a real scene.
It is no longer the concept of film, but a completely equal interaction, and it is not for whom to show, but the relationship between immersion and experience.
Houlang filmMinute International Short Film Festival provides a good space for dialogue: whether we go to see its various unit exhibitions or participate in forums, including other contents derived from it, it is also a kind of dialogue.
The participation of this kind of public dialogue is helpful for creators to open their eyes, update their creative language and update the content to be expressed. It is an inspiration, as well as for the audience.
When there are more and more creators, their works are advanced, novel, experimental, diverse and free, and they are happy as viewers, so they can choose their interested objects more freely.
Xu Tong: This summary is particularly good, which means that you have given it a meaning. That is to say, through the Minute international short film festival, you can get a kind ofstimulate. This kind of stimulation is particularly important because it is like what is happening in words.
For example, we are a movie now, we are people, we have seen so many movies, you have interviewed so many people, and participated in so many forums, which is a kind of stimulation to each other.
Another point is that in the current public discourse space, I am pessimistic, and of course it is also a reality, that is, it is shrinking day by day. In this context, such a film festival is particularly important.
Because public space will not expand by itself, but needs such activities to expand and create.
So I think I need to pay tribute to them, or I especially trust them, and I am willing to join them, so as to expand their freedom, so that more people can sit in the cinema or participate in the forum to feel the excitement, and their world view will be upgraded and updated.
Interview | Xiaoshu
Edit | Qing Yan
Composing | Juan
Planning | Houlang Film Editorial Department
Contact Us
Contribution | cooperation
houlangdianying@hinabook.com
Member | Film Course
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Welcome to play and enjoy with me.